the initial interest: on if one can use Free Software for alone standing persons to manage their daily business by the example of the effort of a german conditional welfare recipient

Hi there,

some red thread first:

the title indicates what is going on. Bookkeeping has its turn. The money level is as always too low. But the work has to be done, and will be achieved experiencedly. Sure, one to say in such an environment as actually the discounter market environment of the todays hardware market player, one had to use non-free software in the whole data processing chain. Yes, and I will indicate and denounce it.

Because this is exactly the second point: I am actuating strictly anonymously. So say what I find, say what I want and letting others explode without being in reach to be involved. That is the reporting position. So I and the reader simply have the luxury of dealing with helpful pictures of the, his reality, pictures, that obey only to the truth.

Back to the read thread. That would be its walk through: So lets seek a way, a effectively functioning way, for him, tramp, to deal with his daily business in the tool sets of the open, – pardon the word went over my lips. Which kind of brain wash must have taken place in my own head, to reach to that? I wanted to say – free software libraries out there.
Typically we google a little and go then straight to their free software forum. Where beginners questions are to be answered, typically, normally friendly and any case politely enough as netequete requires. .

First question: How much of those are in the world and how are they landscaped?

After google I found first:

Die OSII deckt zusammen mit ihren Partnern das gesamte Spektrum möglicher IT-Lösungen ab:
von Groupware, CRM, ERP, DMS, Business Intelligence, über Middleware (ESB),
Identitäts- und Rechtemanagement, Linux-Betriebssysteme bis zu
Backup und Archivierungstools.

That is hard. German CRM, ERP, DMS, Business Intelligence, I am repeating them words be tipping them in the key board. And the first impressing is? Could not you find uglier words for your business? Tomorrow I will CRM you and then comes ERP and call DMS to take your all the money away. Ok lets seek it in englisch, to see who is culpable of it more exactly from this stand point of a certainly necessary sublimity.

The OSII covers together with its partners the whole spectrum of IT solutions: from Groupware, CRM, ERP, DMS, Business Intelligence, Identity and Access Management to Middleware (ESB) and Linux operating systems to Backup and Archiving tools.

So we see exactly the same ugly words. So I deem straight forward that a big deal is hostage keeping in this traditional business. They are simply in true words nazis, doers of crimes, ongoing, documentable, but effectively existing functioning, goberning crimes. Hostage keeping is not allowed, I guess. So one thing to recall the truth after one self without further personal consequences, another thing to find to fall the line of search apt material for our prototype.

How does that function normally?

One asked in the free software forum it a so traced solution can be tailored of the available material. What do they developers or old users think is this possible?

My prejudice

: against it, you might suppose that, is total. For what each offered free software product needed to be scanned is, what I scale a characteristic value of a hostage measurement. At best their is a mirroring of textual and graphical machine commanding. This is the case if the macro recorder covers all the field of possible graphical input. This what I would not expect, and therefore my overall expectation is that in the end they turn out to show up to high values one the hostage scale and therefore turn out to be unusable for me. Not surprisingly in full agreement of that hostaging management software producers. I guess will be the end of the story. Nothing new on earth. I could wait years, decades maybe for ever till a real free software, an aggressive anti-hostaging solution, that I am looking for, would be realizable.

So one word for the aim of completeness to the scale design. The other, the negative end of the scale, I call lycanthropy. That is who they react socially a certain great amount of precisely their jobs is tackled, for example, like in our case maybe, by the recent entering by free software solutions to their market. One speaks of one percent of the population to be needed for economy purposes, tendency heavily sinking. This is a incredible over run on the remaining opportunities. The bad situation is simply that bad, that one can not even address this problem. A bigger social democratic brain wash problem, attached to aim of establish a format of work on the “full time”, which is 8h/d,5-6d/w all year long, till and of human live cycle – for nothing else than to build and secure structures of hostaging.

Yes, this is normal. And, we are glad, to denounce them quite sensible, btw and right here.

So, back to the initial question: How are they landscaped?

It seems that these business partners are as “open-sourcely” situated only in Germany. What I found found: a list of open source products, that is supposed to be preselected for business running.

At the above posted osi-initative they have proposed in a study 5 example case, on how to gather the software parts needed from the domain of free software.  Names are: zarafa agorum, quinscape, helium, Tarent/OSIAM

And if one points google search engine now to:…33705.33705.1.34483.…0…1c.1.64.serp..1.0.0.vU5LWfxTGdg

one finds no english software comparision tables in the wikipedia, as in other branches, but what finds pretty straight forward:

The resulting story:

a single person, was driving force in last decade and got many software enterprises turn into dual licensing. The- to be expected heavily befought- problems around are well detected by the surely advisable use of agpl I think nuclus opts already the agpl.

So this seems regular, ok and of type having been warned. And more turns out to be certain: Only in germany their is cautious free software live within enterprise software, no where else. Therefore the forums of the well representing projects helium V and noclus are held plainly in german. That shall be the explaination why everyhing in german, – to say it is hard to get believed, I would deem by now too and interestingly to be proven.

So how about it, yes I lanced the question in one, only one for the beginning of their forums:
diese Frage kam mir? Wie wäre der empfohlene Weg, wenn man nichts zahlen will? Käme das einer Nichtbenutzbarkeit der Software gleich?

-Ich stelle nur Fragen, weil ich die Antwort nicht kenne, aber gerne wüsste.

-Ich bin newbie und ich verstehe zum Beispiel auch nicht, warum einige Vertreter von ERP Software in gerade Deutschland auf der open source Bühne erscheinen.
Gibt es denn keine englisch sprachigen Programme derartiger Funktionalität? Habe das überall recherchiert nicht anders gefunden. Vielleicht weiß einer von euch ja Rat.
Danke im Voraus
Thanks in advance.
Ist nuclos das?
Hallo, ich dachte anläßlich der halbjährlichen Abwicklung der Buchhaltung im Dreieck Aufstocker, Finanzamt, JC mal zu recherchieren,
-welche Freie-Softwaren effektiv zur Verfügung stehen
-und einen Artikel dazu veröffentlichen.
Mal weiter angenommen der Aufstocker hat Scripting-Pythonkenntnisse. Das ist alles zum Fall.

Frage: Welche Software, mit welchem Zuschnitt wäre ihm zu empfehlen? Ideen??

So what is now left in this stadium of investigation

  1. wait on the forumers to answer us and by this communication fasten our world picture, elegantly.
  2. On the other hand, one could do the task of trying out such a free software for the first time. I am still suppose my self to be not unwelcome as a free user and free citizen, but I will report promisedly  if something say a of agpl-Problem hinders my way
  3. yes, and one could hold fast, that be prejudice-styled pre-estimation such a business tayloring could be well and naturally theoretically thinkable, but in any reach still expected to be hindered efficiently, just for reason of surrounding and governing chicane.


So how is it in case of noclus to set it to use

as far as agpl is concerned?

That means in the core that these software producers of free software in a self-limiting limited way,

-namely the so call dual way, where they offer their products in parallel both commercial and free software licensed. This is in pretty much all our software support/ communities available supposedly the case: They stem from an formerly vendored product and that is still their point of view-

limit themselves not to make use of the abusive trick: of keeping others away from using my free software, by depriving some of necessary component to use it, such as a decent introductory documentation for new users. I would be surprised if I did not find it, but indeed the appear to be eyebrowesing not respect their own licensed users rights and more definitive their users legitimate expectations about it and with that harm them. From here, between us to have some fun mean while , lets make a bet,

they do not obey to their own free software licensing compliantly.

lets follow that line, and if we find something, we are going to wonder about if where to denounce.

Let us just consider the next step.

We want to install and try out the software, to have a first glance? Noclus.

And on our own pc? Yes? What do these free software providers “urge” us to do, in a way that never ever was experienced? By sending them an email. – Then: manually they pick your written request up and put you – humanly serviced – to a ftp-ccount. Where you get what? A binary? (That evolved to be non true for noclus but true for helios hehe.)

There is a wiki with installation instruction – of hopefully not a day work “pay load”. I mean, this is exactly “not friendly”, if that is was is meant with agpl-violation?

Ok, lets go for download…



hey I found that impression. Surreal.


So one sees, here at the very bottom, buttomest of the page we learn that there is

nothing left on their landscape that could not be related to their business.

We notice that we read: Download twice. The user might realize that. We could normally suppose that everything along the red line should be business related, so somewhat irritated one would ask: And how is it that one might not find the whole free software live thing first? Scary?

News: They give you some binaries there:

I do not know what is this, – do they have debian packages, why do not they have debian packages, how is that too important and “premium” that never it got common enough for debian packaging? –

There is hopefully a compile, java style version of it, – assume that. Ok, then here. Still somewhat scary, installing ..


3min. (:


And now first shoot:


As always they ask me something that I do not understand, want not understand and at the same time can not ignore. – Superuser, postgressql. I am not sure in which language these terms get sense here? I was said to read, the installation manual nearby, ok, so what is it?

We saw that on German:

Hm, it seems essentially to keep sure all the formular details, such as version number etc. of certain, several part, such as for example here a java installation on the computers, which is to be done apart. Did I say that I could not understand how one could program a piece of software in java instead of taking python? I say that.

Wenn Ihr System noch nicht über ein installiertes Java Runtime Environment verfügt, sollten Sie dieses auf herunterladen.

nuclos-4.3.5-installer-windows64.exe:  That means: Version of nuclos: 4.3.5

  • ab Nuclos 3.10.x setzt Nuclos Java 7 voraus

  • Nuclos unterstützt momentan noch kein Java 8 !

So according to common math rules this needs to be: Java 7 then..

And we are said where to download it: Is that free, there?

News: I get here then:

I read the faq to installation issues: and find nothing related on which version one could choose as java, runtime, environment, installation. I said that I never wanted to know about java? No?



So we got in the end to a site like the above, in where nothing is anymore understandable? One wonders why there is no all in one installer.

  • Because of the design stubborness of choosing java, would be the first answer.
  • And secondly one wonders how their install succeeded in Debian?
  • Do they really _rely on oracle enterprise better then make use of its free software concurrent java, what was its name?

So next step: I follow the installation routine until I get stop because of some unintelligible java-speech.

There I am to note the error messages: And bring them here. With that the community could search for a solution. Right? This is dull. I swear it gets always dull, when java is in. Did I say that before? No? I say that.

See you later then..

I mean if there first was said to use java 7 but not yet 8, so in conclusion one is about to choose java 7 for it, and on the other hand we find java 7 announced outdated to us, as seen, then sharply concluded is it, there is in consequence no non-defunct free software installations real now. One holds this fast as a interim result.  So understandably I doubt proceeding as the expected result turns out to be impossible on the half way.

and on the harm:

This said it out stakes that over more a harm has happened. A harm that meets the free software seeking user – one might suppose – in a hostile manner if not to say appetite. And the harm consist of having let the free software newbie mislead, abusively controlled his time, which I found unpolite not have been warned before: “Hey before enter this zone (installing such idiot things as ours), be aware that you gonna be used as a deterrent?”

Huch. Scary, was not it?

And now? Take another software package or pose another question:


I would like to know to:

-which degree a the user interface of nuclos is covered with what one could call “Macro recorder” or graphical and scripting mirroring?

-In other words is it so that the textual program control is 100% congruent with the graphical control?

-If their is not intersection at all I would like to learn that, too.

Might someone help me, to find my way?

We are know awaiting 3 answers.

Last Answering was 1 Week away on that forum. Are there only paying visitants? I get really something curious now about it. -..

Next possible doables:

-see the installation forum noclus history. There find clues of the installationprocess` last problems.

-see how this proving of agpl-violation goes, together with the mentioned harm I, as any newbe had to suffer. In any case a mistake of mine was not instantly put my self aware of the historical answer cycle duration, so I oversaw that this whole Investigating processes need to be split up into at least two time spans. Now when one starts investigation at any point of time. And the second and maybe not even last one when you got the answer of it whole – which is in our case – I repeat – one week.

-then a resume of it all is to be written.

On the preresume

I can simply state, that for me it does not seem to be realizable. The engineers had to explain your eyebrowsesing enough, that java is bad for non hostage user environment such as python is for. They will never do it. Nobody of them premium will never exchange a word with you. And this last word might be ensured – at least according to their answer cycle in say more than three weeks. Also foreseen as resume: Their offer need to be considered then as a trap to meet their marketing ends. The free software community might have interest listening this warning a random sample user finds: This has nothing to do with treatment to a user that is inherent to free software. What is done in this economy chapter is to make a joke of the free software thing by using it as a deterrent. So then the question routinely in a kind of anticorruption report checked in future will be: Are they still doing it?

Ok this turns drastic, if once having be turned out to be non true. But I find even drastic is -would have turned out to be – in other case the situation. right?

on the rewrite:

hey and another aspect overseen by now? What stakes out is? If there turns out to be no other free software project as nuclos on the first deem seemed not only the most promising but as well the only one that could be considered as such, yes, then came forking to mind. The developer teams -as such- can be seen as self denounced fork saboteurs. But anyway I came here with the preparation to be checked out, namely that java were hostagering software. That it never will be adopt pythonly high speech scripting freedom. And as a matter of fact all the market sector of free software in small-this includes-the-smallest-business is covered not enough. One has this hostile hostage designed tool, and you are not even set to ability to repair its flaws and make it simply work your way, which I could imaging for far regions well feasible – with Python, but with java? As high my kind of knowledge is, that it is not possible with java, thus there all together one could deduce right from here: If one needed a decent tramp software, one needed to reprogram one, which is then hopefully the most consequently user input text-grafic-mirrored. Maybe in format of a kernel, for several competitors in order to please their customers’ needs and as well wishes.

– Make a “Stop Tramp Trapper Markteting Now!”-Sign for the next meeting of south German youth Free software meeting next march in Chemnitz. -little joke.



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